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Episode 99 - Geoff Eade - Sleep Techs Helping Patients 1:1 with CPAP

1:06

Hey there, it's Emma Cooksey here and I'm your host.

So I'm recording this the day before I'm going to Scotland for a week.

So if you follow me on Instagram, you'll probably know I've been talking all about trying to figure out some a setup that works for the plane so I can use my CPAP overnight.

1:26

And so thank you so much to all of you who have reached out with your experiences.

It's really helpful and especially You too Chris and Cassio, who am on Instagram?

She's me and my CPAP and she's much more experience of traveling with her CPAP and using on planes.

1:46

So she really helped me out because there's actually quite a lot to it.

Like I didn't realize but you really need to reach out to the and the airline ahead of time and tell them exactly the makes and models of the equipment.

You're going to use to make sure that that's okay for you to use in flight and CPAP machines will say on them, you know they're approved for in-flight use but it doesn't hurt to double-check all that before you go so I'm hopeful that it's going to go okay but I will keep you guys posted so if you're not already following me on Instagram, its sleep apnea stories there.

2:23

And I'll be posting, I'm sure I'll be posting a little bit.

You know, about being at the Harry Styles concert too so we're pretty excited.

So on to today's guess I'm Joined by Jeff heed, and Jeff is a really interesting guys talk to you.

2:41

I really enjoyed our conversation.

So he's been working in health care since 1999 and entered the suite field in 2008.

He quickly received his RPS GT, that's asleep.

Tak thing we talked all about these different qualifications in the actual and conversation and also his see CSH credential and earned his Bachelor's degrees, Jeff started out and sleep as a scheduler, and worked his way up to sleep center manager.

3:13

He now works as a sleep coach for better night.

Most recently, he served on the RPS GT and CC sh job task.

Analysis teams.

For the be, our PT and was accepted to the University of Oxford's master of science in sleep medicine program without Further Ado, here's my conversation with Jeff Eid.

3:43

So Jack, thank you so much for joining me.

Do you want to start?

I just by telling people a little bit about where you are in the world a little bit about what you do.

So, my name is Jeff eat and I am a registered sleep Tech.

3:58

And I'm also see CSH and I'm physically located in Mississippi.

Get to walk CCS H is great the course of the chat.

So you're in Mississippi.

4:13

Yeah, the Mississippi just outside of Jackson.

Most of my life has been here.

I moved around a lot.

Growing up.

And My accent changes depending on whom I'm talking with.

You know, I can get real Soldier wrong with me.

4:32

You know, when I'm talking to patients that I am asleep coach with better night.

I guess I should say that.

Yeah.

And when I'm talking to people there from all over the country, which will get into, but they say you sound, I can't really place your accent and if I'm talking to somebody from south Louisiana and it kind of gets a little Asian e and cool that was like a chameleon.

4:57

You know, I'm all about that Russians.

So here's how like I kind of was aware of you just because you're kind of a big deal in sleep, right.

And but at the reason I wanted to talk to you was I started talking to different people who were using all different types of Home testing.

5:20

So I talked to somebody who was using laughter, They weren't using insurance and they just paid to have like you know a consultation on a zoom call with a doctor and then the test ship to their house.

I think it's a watch Pat they use and then you know follow-up and the CPAC goes their highest and all that.

5:42

Then I talk to another person who'd used Empower where that's like using a sleep image ring and again that's not really, I think some of us are insurance.

So the reason I I really want to have you on, was to talk a bit about better night and, and their model because I feel as though that does allow people to use Insurance because it's more offering the service to the doctors and the insurance companies.

6:13

I don't really know so I'm hoping you can explain sure.

So, better night is also associated with sleep data services. and they have been around since 1995 so they're not, they're not new to this and over the years they have really they've really Perfected.

6:38

I would say the process and they are now in all 50 states.

Sorry, we are now in all 50 states.

And, you know, we've got doctors all over the country and some of them in physical locations.

6:55

We have a few physical locations in San Diego.

And so our headquarters is there, we have a physical location in Deanna want to New York, want to Colorado.

But primarily the focus is to try to increase our Telehealth footprint and you know our services start with a basic assessment.

7:23

When we get a referral in the patient is then kind of processed and sent to portal on the web on the internet and they log in and get started.

They go through Screening questions, basic sleep history, family history, they get an overview of the entire better night program where they they can access different videos that explain different options and just kind of how it all works.

7:55

So that's direct to the patient.

The patient's doing that.

Yes, yes.

Okay, yep.

And very user friendly.

It's it's just kind of a step by step.

It's very simple.

We take their insurance and we get a preliminary Auto verification.

8:15

Right.

And that just, I think it's more.

I don't know the details, but I think it's more like, your your insurance is active versus not as far as the details of what is covered and different policies and all that comes later.

8:30

Yes.

So then they get into the medical history where they go into the different comorbidities and they could do a self-assessment.

Made.

They also questionnaires also include your typical F or sleepiness scale and stopping and all that.

8:48

Then they can schedule themselves for a 15 minute consultation with one of our board certified sleep Physicians.

Then they get the MDS recommendation after that consultation, where it's decided, if path is probably going to be the best therapy.

9:07

Like if obstructive apnea is suspected or if an oral Appliance may be better.

We are so they did testing first or no.

Getting there.

Okay.

We're just at this point.

We're just doing the recommendation on the assessment from the doctor, okay?

9:25

And so then you as the patient you decide, okay?

Obstructive sleep?

Apnea of course, you've had time to go over some of those videos and explains all of that and you talked to the doctor and he explained some of that.

So now you're well-informed to make a decision on which pathway you want to go, right?

9:43

So the first thing I got to do is figure out if you have apnea.

It's so to do that.

We do that through a chesty.

Now, the home sleep apnea test home.

Sleep testing for people listening that aren't familiar, right?

Yes.

I guess the official term would be home.

10:00

Sleep apnea test, but we will shorten its hsts.

But so there are different options out there.

You mentioned the watch, Pat one and the watch Fat 300 and the Sleep image ring.

10:16

That's fascinating.

Mating.

They're a couple others coming out, just to back it up to an actual sleep study.

Yeah, in lab in lab sleep study.

We're going to monitor your breathing patterns, oxygen level your brain waves to we, look at your brain waves to determine what stage of sleep, you're in.

10:37

Yes.

And then in lab, there are a few other sensors that are looking at your legs.

And, you know, snoring and things like that.

Well, they developed the home.

Sweet test to try to do all of those things, but at home and most of them cover most of what's in a sleep lab in lap.

11:01

The night.

One, from Respironics, from Philips Respironics, they monitor the breathing pattern air flow though, it has a cannula, right?

Yeah, through the cannula and then also so your oxygen level and heart rate through your finger.

11:21

And so, that's really good to detect sleep, apnea and home sleep apnea test.

But then other manufacturers started to step up their game and started, researching, and testing.

Can we do, can we see other types of apnea, right?

11:39

Can we see disturbances?

And sleep, is there any way we can pick up on what stage of sleep there in, without all the electrodes on the head and like it in lab?

And so watch, Pat came along and their, their technology is pretty close.

11:58

Because when they when they ran it then they started comparing it to a lab studies to see if they're the accuracy and it's been phenomenal.

And since then other manufacturers from all over the world are designing things to make the sunrise is coming out, and it's just a little thing on the chin, right?

12:16

Amazing, it really is.

So the Rings came out.

The Sleep image ring and that's fascinating.

And for the old-school Sleek Tech your like there's no way that's accurate but they've got hundreds of research studies and empirical data backing, up the comparison that it's accurate, you know, in, you know, at the end of the day, we're looking for sleep apnea, that's it.

12:45

You know.

And what do we need to figure out sleep apnea?

So we can get this patient started on that treatment now.

With over 100 Sleep disorders.

Of course, they're going to be other things to look at but if they're positive for apnea we need to get that under control first.

Yes and so which and is there a particular home sleep test that better night do or does it depend on the patient?

13:09

We get depends on the patient.

It depends on the evaluation from the medical doctor that we have.

If if a patient is older and less mobile, then they're going to Need a simple like a ring would be perfect but a lot of our we use a lot of night ones and watch Pat's, watch Pat 300.

13:32

We have a program with that we're developing for transportation employees like truck drivers bus drivers Pilots.

That's my favorite subject.

Yes.

Because when you talk to those people like that, they need everything to be tracked and then a lot of them.

13:51

To have like, an annual thing, where they can show compliance, and all of that.

Yeah, and see.

And that's, that's kind of a stickler for me, just in general.

Because, you know, they, the drivers themselves that are unaware, and the companies they work for that are unaware.

14:13

Are panicking because they think this is like a career-ending thing.

Yeah.

And I'm going to have to do this or I'll lose my job and it's like we need to change that mindset because with awareness because without it that's the career-ending thing, right?

14:31

So seeing the truck, I see the truck right or the plane, you know.

So it's like but the benefit is your healthier, your Whittier you You know, you're in a better mood.

Like all of these things, get better once you're compliant and you're treating your apnea but without it you're slow reaction times forgetfulness falling asleep.

14:56

You know.

Just all of the above is - so like this is actually a good thing not a bad thing.

Yeah.

You know thing for people's lives aside from like you know, that they can keep their job and right.

But also the other people around here that You're driving around or that are riding in your plane, you know, it's good for them to.

15:16

So, yeah, for sure.

But any like so, so a person.

So you said that they like, kind of choose one of the pathways and then they get a test and it will depend on what the doctor that talks to them says.

Yeah.

So from the panel, they get that, you know, they've had their their consultation with the doctor they discuss it.

15:38

They say, okay.

We're going to do a home sleep test test.

Our team verifies now the specifics of their insurance coverage and review that it goes on the portal that the patient can access as well.

They can also speak to someone, of course, to review all of that.

15:56

And then, you know, whatever deductibles applied in, that sort of thing.

That's that covers the.

But you have people that kind of deal with that and smooth that out for them because I think sometimes that's a big part of it, right?

Yes.

Like I mean, especially Ali people like me with my insurance is like very it seems like you know this is covered, that's not covered.

16:20

Like you know, it's only specific things and so having somebody on the medical side to actually like finesse, that is a really big help.

17:58

You know, we've got a remarkable team of admins whether they're coaching, admins, respiratory therapy, admins, billing Insurance.

You know, it's just a resupply, it's just a tremendous operation in the warehouse, you know, getting things shipped out that they were ordering it as coaches or, you know, what have you but yeah, getting everything verified, their hundreds of patients that were dealing with every day.

18:27

Day and they stay on top of it.

And, you know, it's very patient oriented Patient Advocates and it's just a great culture.

So we get the HST shipped out.

The patient has after-hours number that they can call if they're having any difficulties and then it comes with a self-addressed and stamped box for to send it back to us.

18:52

Yeah, then once we get it we have a Diagnostics team that scores the study and review.

Is it in and gets it ready for the Doctor Who then, you know, sides it, and then the portal is updated with every step in the process.

19:07

So the patient can sign into the portal and see where they're at, you know, the study is being processed, or we would call it scored.

And so, then the results are given to the patient, and it's now time to decide kind of what.

19:25

So, if that another Like video call with with a doctor or how is that done?

It's all part of the part of the step, by step process in the portal.

And are you referring to, like, who gives the results like the diagnosis?

19:42

Yeah, got ya.

So yeah, that also kind of depends on on the patient and the insurance and the situation we have respiratory therapist registered sleep tax.

Nurse practitioners, medical, doctors that can give those results and then but the portal is taking them, you know, step by step.

20:06

Yeah.

If the doctor orders a nasal mask then they have the option to select like a regular nasal or nasal pillow mask that sort of thing and then we ship their unit their device and initial supplies.

20:26

Equipment and mask, basic normally gets that within a, within a week or two, just kind of depends on many different variables, but once they get it, they have the opportunity to go again background.

So it depends if you're in the middle of a CPAP recall or Not, Right.

20:45

But now hopefully we're kind of getting through a lot of it's getting.

Yeah, getting ironed out.

Now we have units through react.

Formerly 3B.

Of course Phillips in ResMed and Resident the ivories.

21:04

So those are the four main major devices that we use right now.

So once the patient gets that, they've got videos that they can watch and access to, you know, how to set up their device that sort of thing and start using it.

So that's the spirit, this is for CPAP, right?

21:22

And so he did, you said that there was like different Pathways like him people?

She's like, if they show up as mild or moderate, is there an oral Appliance routes for you guys?

Or you're just referring the matter?

If they if they expressed interest in that or Inspire?

21:39

For example, you know, we have Physicians that we can refer them to.

Okay?

Cool.

We don't actually test for the Inspire and in oral appliances and everything, but we are affiliated with, you know, many Physicians that do.

Okay, great or we'll find some One in their area if we're not right on and so sorry I interrupted you because your might say, there's something cool.

22:02

So the people have their CPAP and they're watching videos and then what's the cool part?

So they they get their device in their masks and they're ready to start the night of and they have a question.

Well we've got a large team of sleet coaches that come in and are available for, you know, the phone calls from the patient's, you know, I just got my machine.

22:25

I can't figure this out.

You know, it's very important for some of these devices that are not they don't, they don't have modems, but they have Wi-Fi connections.

And so we need to walk them through getting them connected to Wi-Fi so we can get their data that's just like the first part of coaches, you know, their responsibilities.

22:46

You know, we're here to help them, you know, get started and we review, you know, the Comfort settings on the device, the all the settings that they can control, and we kind of explained, So the Alameda fire and the ramp and all things.

Yeah and just kind of how all of that works and tips and tricks that are going to help them you know and we can pick up on maybe their apprehension of this that or the other and we can have them try it right then.

23:14

And there we also have the ability to turn a call into a virtual column, and so we can, you know, literally walk them through and they can see us.

You can see the machine and you can see the math, right?

And yeah, I'm sorry.

This is Smith.

23:29

You're putting on backwards if you'll turn it off.

Yeah.

And so tell me, so a ton of people listening to this are struggling CPAP users, right?

So tell me why are the big issues that you're hearing from patients and and give us like some of your key secrets too high to help with those.

23:56

You know, it really depends on on what the complaint is, you know, and just kind of how the conversations going to get a feel for their, their level of panic, their level of frustration.

And, you know, just kind of go from there.

24:12

But as an example, one of the most common is, this pressure is too high, the pressures too high.

I can't deal with this pressure and just kind of my go-to is This mainly I mainly referring to patients that have an ape app in Auto Pack.

24:30

And so, I explained that to them now, your device is set to a range of pressures, and when you go to bed, it starts off low and increases as you have apnea, it's only going to give you the amount of pressure that it takes to clear your Airway, right?

24:45

So I want you to try to try to work on changing your mindset just briefly.

Think of it don't think of it like man that's too much pressure.

Think of it man it takes that much pressure to clear my Airway.

25:03

Just two different mindsets right now.

It's still a lot of pressure.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you will address that but your initial thought when you wake up and the pressure is blowing so hard think.

Wow.

That's how much it takes to open my Airway so I can breathe right?

25:20

All right, now let's address the pressure.

There are different things that we can do.

There are different settings that we can adjust to make it easier to breathe with.

You also have the ramp feature where you just hit the button.

In and it starts over low and starts, you know, start the process all over again.

25:37

So just kind of working with them and the psychological side of it and working with it.

We also advise patients to practice practice with it in the afternoon, you know, watch TV, read a book, you know, wearing wearing the mask.

Listen to your podcast, whatever wearing your mask sitting up and awake your alert, you can control the device, turn it on and off at will.

26:03

The mask off, put it back on at will, you know, practice with it before you go to bed?

Do that every afternoon, or every evening for a while and just help with the acclamation of the process, because remember, you're consciously, having to get used to wearing a something on your face and receiving the air, that's blowing through it.

26:23

But subconsciously, your bodies having to acclimate to the same.

So you know, so that's that's kind of probably one of the biggest complaints And then masks I would imagine would be a huge topic.

26:38

Ryan like that's another cool feature, we have a better night, we've got a mask replacement policy and you know, it's up to us coaches to what a patient calls in and they say this mask isn't working for me and we start kind of going through a little mental checklist, okay?

26:58

What about it is it working for you?

And there are different options.

That manufacturers will allow us to do Replacements in just different agreements.

So it's up to us to find a mask that's going to fit them better.

27:14

And we will use all of the major manufacturers.

And so one company's nasal pillow, mask, may not work, but another ones would or maybe they need to go to the Cradle under the nose.

27:30

Max, sometimes we get patients that.

It's unknown or they didn't reveal that, they were born with the deviated septum and nasal mask isn't going to work at.

All right.

So now we need to move up to the full face mask.

We may have to get another order from their ordering physician and a new cmn certificate of medical necessity.

27:51

That normally takes a couple of days sometimes longer, but once we get that, we can ship them a new mask and it continued trying to narrow down which mask is Going to be best for them, you know the main focus.

28:07

Number one is the seal, you know that's that's the number one because without the seal if the air is leaking out it's not going in to clear the air like the seals number one, but a close second place is Comfort.

Comfort is extremely important because that's going to make them want to continue to use it.

28:27

Yes.

All right, you can have a comfortable mask but if it's leaking like crazy.

It's not doing any good now.

So they're not Owing to use it.

So and how long does it take from?

Like, I know, obviously we've talked a little bit about how there could be like supply issues with sleep apps and all that.

28:45

Hopefully, a lot of that's behind us.

But how long does the process normally take from the person going on to the website and filling out?

The pre-screen, earthing going through the whole home testing, sending it back getting their CPAP, like, how long are we talking?

29:03

And for that, That whole process.

Usually, that's a great question.

Am I in?

You know, a lot of it has to do with the unknown variables, you know, because our our people are on top of their game, you know, when they get an assignment, it's pretty much done the same day.

Yeah, but you can't control how long it takes the person to send back the or or the insurance company or, you know, if we have something in stock and we have all the insurance is verified and we have the order.

29:30

It's verified.

It's probably going to go out the same day.

Well, but if if we're waiting for a patient to it's called DocuSign, you know, sign over the internet, if we're waiting for them to sign them that's going to delay, right?

29:48

So could meet all the patient was a few weeks or something?

Yes.

Oh yeah, yeah.

If everything is out of in a row, then, yeah, I mean, I'm just comparing it to like, one of the reasons I want you to talk more about home.

Testing was just comparing it to Some of the traditional model of people going to see a sleep specialist, and as we know, there's not enough of those to go around.

30:12

So, often times there's a wait for that.

And then, once you see this, look specialist a lot of physical like Labs, have a weight as well.

And so people, you know, I'm hearing for of people, you know, like this whole process taking like three and four months.

30:30

Yeah.

And the other the other thing is even after you See the patient.

I mean, see the doctor and you have your sleep study, then you have to wait to get the results back before.

You can even go to the DMV company, right?

It's so for us with hsts and our diagnostic team, again, everybody's on their game, you know, we're we're getting the studies turned around between two and three days, typically, if not less from getting the data from the home study test.

31:02

So, yeah, Everything is streamline, it's another benefit of, you know, Telehealth and using utilizing technology, you know, to our advantage.

So after the patient gets the their masks and anytime they have problems, they can call a coach.

31:20

And we're here to help.

And so and that's all we really need, right?

Like, I think that the more people I interviewed, the more were realizing the Long-term following up with patients is a big chunk of what's missing.

31:38

Yeah.

Like I think that a lot of healthcare professionals and sleep you know are kind of like scratching their head and being likewise compliant so badly, you know, like why are not as many people sticking with their therapy and over the long term?

31:55

And I think that a lot of it is the really in the traditional setup, there's not really somebody to Call who you can?

I mean maybe there are like, I mean I always look at my own experience, right?

Like maybe there are some really great places which have, you know, people on call 24/7 to answer phones and help you.

32:17

But I think just from a lot of people, I've talked to you, that's not really as more of an annual, checkup with a sleep specialist.

And you know what you really need is someone you can call and say I'm having a real big problem.

And you know, like get some solutions.

32:35

Yeah, definitely.

And you know, look at you ahead of the game because that's the next step.

So after they get all of their equipment and everything, you know, at some point their compliance has been explained to them.

And for the most part, they follow that, we follow Medicare Medicare guidelines where you've got to use your device for at least 4 hours a day 21 out of 30 days.

32:59

You know, this is so that the insurance company will pay.

For it correct.

You got 90 days to do it and so the insurance companies they're like, okay we know this is good for your help and we're going to pay for it but or at least our part, we're going to pay our part for it.

33:14

We're going to cover it.

But for us to do that, you need to prove to us that you're going to use it.

And these are the requirements and there is an insurance out there that requires this every 30 days.

33:33

Not just want her to know, just for the rental, the amount of time.

I think it's about 10, 10 months, you know, till the machines, you know, paid off their part anyway.

So, But the compliance is using it for hours, in a 24-hour period of time, 21 out of 30 days, 21 days out of 30 and you have 90 days to do it.

33:57

Well, patients will forget that because they're overwhelmed with you know, the paperwork or you think of life and everything.

So we at better night have a system where we are monitoring our patients.

34:18

You know, we're developing it fine-tuning it and we're able to, you know, find patients that are not not compliant or they're struggling.

It appears that they're struggling.

And so we use technology and traditional communication to either text email or call a patient that may be struggling.

34:43

Sierra their machine is like you can see Their data from their CPAP.

Yes.

So our phones our devices, they get linked into a compliance software program that each manufacturer has.

And that data is accessible to us automatically from the beginning.

35:04

When we're doing this setup, we're also setting up again.

Amazing admin team.

They got great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so then, so, you can see ahead of time But somebody is headed for not being compliant and potentially losing their machine.

35:25

You can e-mail or call to say, how's it going over there?

Doesn't look like it's going well, right?

So I love the way you think so seeing ahead of time that's the Hot Topic right now.

In sleep, remote patient monitoring right now is is a Hot Topic and it's great and it's and it's overdue.

35:47

You and well overdue.

But so, to be able to see the patient's data through these compliance software programs, that's just the first part, right?

You know what, you alluded to was.

Can we see ahead?

No, not yet.

36:03

Nobody can there are way too many variables involved.

Whether somebody is you can see it day 15, this person's just Nest like, you know, seven they going to do Right.

That's that's what everybody's after.

36:21

Is that predictability of behavior?

Yeah, and so what if you're monitoring them along the way and you're encouraging them along the way and you're communicating with them along the way.

That's going to make those long-term predictions easier.

36:37

Yeah.

More manageable you know then you're only dealing with the really unknown variables, like if somebody gets a new dog and they started letting them sleep in the bed that shams Changes, everything, you know where they have a kid, that sleeps in the bed, who knows?

36:52

So that's that's the future is predicting, you know, patients abilities.

Now for now, yes, we can track them and we can see a trend if they're trending down or trending up as far as their compliance usage is concerned, but we're doing our best to not just follow them during their compliance period, but also afterwards, right?

37:17

Because This is about patient Health you know, first and foremost.

So honestly, when you think about it should be the norm, right?

Like that should be one, every single doctor's office is doing across the country but it's just not what's happening?

37:32

I think that disadvantage they have is they just don't have the staff or they don't have the technology or software.

Sure.

Yeah, you know, in better night does in, you know, we've got a great team that works together and getting Getting that accomplished is getting them set up effectively quickly, monitoring them, managing them, and then continuing to maintain them over time.

37:59

So I guess what I really want to ask you about is where you see all this going in the future.

So tell us a bit about what you did as a sleep Tech before you took this latest job.

Like, I think you weren't did you work in a lab and you were scoring sleep studies and that kind of Yeah, so I started back in 2008.

38:22

That's when my sleep Journey started, I had been, you know, a scheduler Clerk and emergency room technician.

And so I had some health care background.

Like, I started scheduling sleep studies for multiple labs, in multiple States.

38:39

And, you know, one day, we had a tech that no showed a no called, they were let go when they needed a text.

Quickly.

And so, as many cases in medicine, I I watched a study done on a Sunday night Monday night, I did a practice went on a friend and Tuesday night, I was on my own and wow solo.

39:04

But I mean, you know, I was working with someone but, you know, I was, I was right at it, you know, within three days and I found that Niche, you know?

I found like what I had experienced Health Care before I found the same fulfillment and you know, it it was intriguing, it was just different.

39:26

And then when I first captured a patient on CPAP and they woke up feeling amazing that was to me that was the equivalent of you know doing compressions on someone in the ER and getting that Rhythm back.

You know, it's just exhilarating to see that you could help someone.

39:44

And for me my my passion Even in sleep comes from, you know, my dad.

He was a he was a compliant user of CPAP and used it every night and he didn't use it when he took a nap one day and he didn't wake up and didn't have any other major comorbidities.

40:06

But you know, the cause of death was heart failure.

Well, He didn't have a bad heart, he didn't have any heart problems.

Well, it's probably because his lungs failed.

A lot of his loan spell, well, because he had apnea, yes, let's call the cause of death at Mia, you know.

But anyway and that story I'm so sorry to hear about that.

40:25

And that story is so common, like I hear about people all the time.

I think like that, sometimes when people are like, oh, I'm not gonna bother get tested because it's not that big of a deal.

Well, it's a really big deal.

Really big deal, You know, for me, it's not why I got into sleep, I coincidentally got into sleep to help a friend out that was managing this sleep lab that needed a scheduler and he knew I could schedule.

40:51

So, you know, that's how I got into it.

But once I started putting the dots together and realizing that, oh, this is, this is what happened, you know, and he was 54, you know?

And I'm goodness, I'm 44 now, my husband just turned 50 for.

41:10

Yeah, really.

Yeah, it's young.

So that's what drives my passion.

I don't want anybody else to go through that.

You know?

And and as I learned about sleep and learn more and more, I just got hungry for it.

And I was just statistic, I went through the, the a step program and on-the-job training.

41:30

Plus, the modules you take, and then I sat so that's to become a sleep tack.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's one of the pathways to become a registered sleep sack and So, I did not listen to the advice of my mentor and did not study what she told me to, and I failed by four points.

41:50

I was a statistic, you know, I failed, but I took it again, having studied the material.

She told me to study and passed it.

And that was fine.

Well, then in 2012, they came out with this idea for the clinical sleep educator, which was going to be kind of the next step.

42:08

And the idea was the next step to help monitor compliance and help sleep Physicians, within the, the Sleep clinics and hospitals.

Educate patients, educate patients, right?

You've heard of the Sleep Navigator and things like that.

42:25

So is this the ccsa?

Now, this know, right?

This is they wanted to kind of get a feel for, you know, the response from the Sleep Community with the Sleep educator and it was huge.

And so they started to develop that.

And that's what became the certified in clinical sleep Health.

42:46

Okay?

Prudential.

And they formed an exam and got it approved to the BR PT and I was blessed to be included in the job, task analysis committee, for the next version of that exam coming out in a few years and that was such a great experience.

43:10

It's working with sleep professionals across the country, their different perspectives, their different roles in sleep.

And, you know, to develop that, you know, in the idea of that is to address the needs that you were seeing.

43:29

So you've got sleep tax, who were doing a lot of the scoring of the sleep studies, and that kind of thing, but maybe not having enough time to spare.

And one on one with patience, was that the idea like that?

The Sleep Educators could actually do that role and communicate with the patients about their therapy and right?

43:52

Well so the typical you know, sleep texts are going to be your night text that are working in a sleep lab environment.

But then the next step is going to days and those are so hard to find, right?

But you know once you get on Days, you're working in a clinic atmosphere, you know, you might be scoring studies from the night before, but you maybe your Sleep Centers or your sleep Labs marketer or liaison to a sleep physician.

44:24

And so now you need to go out there and develop a referral system to get out to more people.

Well, you're going to need to be properly educated on sleep topics and what the public are dealing with.

So, the CCS H has Application.

44:42

You know that it can do, it can go out into the public, it can have group sessions, it can you know public service announcements, you know, it can work that way.

Raising awareness of Isaac awareness right now.

They can go into like a hospital-based.

44:59

Now most of my career I have worked for independent sleep Labs, but most of my career has been involved with hospital-based sleep Labs, you know, I Was manager for a for bed sleep lab before coming to better night, in its rural South West Mississippi and it's just, you know, very difficult to, you know, increase referrals and by the CCS.

45:25

H really helped me out because I was able to communicate with our patients that were coming in for clinic.

And, you know, they appreciated that they're more knowledgeable, that increase their compliance, once they were diagnosed and way we set up our Take in the follow-up, just the methods of how we were doing.

45:44

It was based off of the knowledge from the CCS H program and just kind of how everything operates.

So then we can go into the hospital as that sleep Navigator, roll and Screen patients in the hospital.

46:01

And so now you're helping the hospital which is helping your sleep center, which is helping the community.

See, so there's many different avenues that one can go.

Go with ICICI sh and that's what makes that credential so beneficial.

Yeah.

Well there's a lot of kind of panic out there that with all of these a chest.

46:20

He's coming out that there's not going to be a need for Sleep debt and that's so far from the truth.

Who do you think's?

Developing all this stuff?

You know, these different devices though.

So I'm getting ready.

When I got done speaking to you, I have to go and finish my slides.

46:36

For the talk, I'm giving at the Philadelphia sleep conference.

And that's going to be Sleek tax and I think respiratory therapists and there's probably going to be some CCS H people to.

Yeah but I want to make sure that my take on what sleep text think is what they're actually thinking.

46:56

Okay, I would have thought that just looking around.

They're seeing like Enzo data is AI scoring of sleep testing and they're like oh well if the computer is going to do it do they are they To need me and they're also looking at like patients who are exploring completely other avenues like you know, like they're they're completely going over here and thinking about like bariatric surgery or double jaw surgery or, you know, all sorts of things you can do with dentist and and thinking of that as taking people away.

47:34

But my take on it is there's 80 percent of people undiagnosed.

Yeah.

So my thing is sleep, Tech, Sandra Spirit or therapists and, and the CCS HP pole.

I mean, we just have our work cut out, right?

47:50

Yes.

Need to, you know, anymore skills and all the knowledge that they have.

Yes, you go.

I and spread the word that like so many people have this and don't know, they have it.

Yes, me there's a huge need for Sleep tax.

48:05

Yes!

What there's a need for Sleep.

Tax is helping spread that word.

And then when all the people have the home sleep test and then some of them who are really straightforward and they have sleep apnea and that straightforward, they're going to have CPAP totally, you know, like what what you've just explained of doing the whole thing from home and using a computer that's great.

48:30

But there's also a ton of people with multiple Sleep Disorders.

Yeah.

And people who have narcolepsy and sleep apnea.

Yes.

People who have I mean there, I think people are unaware that there's so many different Sleep Disorders.

48:45

Right?

So I feel as though if we can all work together to really spread awareness, to all of those people, there's going to be a ton of work for Sleep tags, but it's going to be in really using their knowledge and experience about really challenging cases, rather than just scoring.

49:05

What do you think?

Do you think I'm on the right?

Lines are no.

Yeah, you're on the right track.

Let me add.

I mean, Add some stuff to that.

You're absolutely right.

Yeah spot on.

Over the next five to ten years, you will see hopefully an increased Respect for Sleep professionals because there are organizations that are finally coming around.

49:36

They've known sleep is as important as it is, but they didn't recognize it and now they are.

So now it's the third pillar of Health.

Now it's one of the you know, is it the Elite 8?

What is it?

I don't know.

I kind of called it but yeah, you know.

49:53

Yay, that's great.

Now we're on.

Really on everybody's radar and you have celebrities talking about increasing your quantity of sleep.

That's awesome.

You're halfway there.

Don't forget about the quality.

But hey, I'll take what I can get right?

50:09

Say so, but as a sleep Tech, you need to see that if you want to grow in sleep, You need to be Visionary.

You need to look around.

50:24

You need to go to these different conferences.

You need to educate yourself.

Getting the CCS H is the next step in your Evolution as a sleep, professional.

Unless you're going to go to med school and then try to do a fellowship to become a sleep doctor, which you're not going to do.

50:40

Let's just face it.

The next step is to go see CSH.

Well, what can I do with that?

There's a ton of stuff.

You can do with that and You know, the very least of which is to help your sleep lab do what it's doing.

Yeah, but now we've got remote patient monitoring coming and they're going to be a ton of companies looking for people that are experienced.

51:01

That know how to talk to patients about sleep and Sleep Disorders.

But not just compliance compliance is just part of it, like, you were saying, so, but we need educated sleep text to do that.

And, you know, It's just the beginning, really?

51:21

It really is just the beginning and it's things are going to continue to grow.

Patients are getting sicker in the lab as far as apnea is concerned, right?

And so you're not going to get rid of the sleep lab.

We're always going to have sleet in lab sleep studies.

51:36

Yeah.

And I'll also add that companies like in.

So data, I was one of those texts that thought that and says, fixing to take over everything because at the time, That's all.

I was doing was scoring studies, right?

And I wasn't taking at night.

51:53

I was just scoring studies.

And so I was like, yeah, they're going to take over my job, that's it.

And then, when I got to this lab right before the job, before better night, I had so many administrative duties that I had to do in marketing and everything and I could not keep up with the scoring of the night studies and HST.

52:15

Oh it's actually gonna help.

It helps me exact.

It flipped everything and you can actually go on there and see my testimonial was one of their first that they put on their website and go check it out.

I was twenty percent administrative 80% scoring we put and we implemented and so and it flipped those 80% administrative and 20% scoring just from implementing their system.

52:40

Now could accompany use that to eliminate scoretext sure but probably only at their shortsightedness.

It and they don't see all of the great.

Exactly.

You know what a great asset those you know freed up sleep.

Techs are right?

52:56

Exactly.

So they thought the same thing about hsts hsts were coming.

That's going to destroy sleep lab and everything and it was like no dr.

Lee Chung did His 2019, I want to say it was Indianapolis.

53:13

He was talking about hsts and when they came everybody was panicking and and he didn't, he thought, how can we take advantage of this and sure enough?

It turns out when you increase the volume of hsts they're actually twice as profitable as the in lab study in volume.

53:33

And here's the other thing, here's the other thing.

I think about home sleep testing and I Talk to you for 4 hours but we're gonna wrap it up as something, okay?

And but here's the other thing, I think, I think that a lot of people, I talk to our wives of husbands who will not go to the doctor and will not go overnight to a sleep lab.

53:54

So I don't think of honestly a lot of people who are being reached by home text testing are not necessarily people who would have been going to the lab anyway.

I feel like it's an opportunity to reach some of those 80% of people that That are just unaware.

54:10

They have sleep apnea.

Certainly and you know a lot of the patients that I talked to that are kind of were in that situation, you know.

Just back to the story about my dad for a second.

The weekend of his funeral is when I started using his machine, which is a big No-No.

54:30

But I didn't know that at the time, I wasn't in sleep but I knew I had apnea.

And people around me told me I had at me and I didn't even really.

So you haven't had a task.

You just need the Yeah.

We're like yourself and breathing and yeah you stop breathing, you familiar because of your dad.

Yep.

And so so then I had to study and I was diagnosed and went through the process.

54:51

Ultimately I had the you triple P surgery where they cut everything out of your throat which was horrible and that actually made my apnea worse and so now I have severe sleep apnea complex apnea and but my point is that That for 17 years now I've used CPAP and I've been a tech for 15 years.

55:16

So between those two, I'm able to give a unique perspective to these patients in.

Yes, I know what it feels like to just I'm sick awareness thing.

I just want to sleep like everybody else does without something on my face.

55:31

I know what that feels like and yeah, you know and my pressure is is the top.

It's a 25, so, Oh, yeah, I know what it feels like to have a lot of pressure blown on, you know, so that makes it easier to talk to patients that are going through this and for the ones that have been guilt tripped by their spouse, you know, I immediately say, yeah, but you're going to make them happy.

55:55

You know, also, they love you and they won't, you stay around with Matt?

Yeah, yeah.

And I were asking you about your whole story?

Yeah.

Well, I have a part to the record because that's a whole thing is south.

56:12

And, but yeah, thank you so much for joining me.

I really appreciate it.


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