Hey everyone, it’s Emma Cooksey here and I'm your host.
So, I deliberately chose this week to are this conversation.
I had with dr.
Jasmine Elmore, and, and so, last week we had dr.
Whitney moskovitz Levinson talking about her, take on the Agra case and, and as a board-certified orthodontist.
So now we're kind of hearing from dr.
L Moore, who even though we both, Both talked about how we don't like the term Airway dentist.
She comes from that kind of Airway, dentist and side of things.
So I thought was a really interesting discussion and and I'm interested to hear what you guys take away from it.
But so doctor Elmore and uses a combination of myofunctional therapy, breathwork, physical therapy, and a new Appliance called the Soma And which is Som a and so she talks all about it in the episode but she's really focusing on people's nervous systems and how people can't get good sleep.
If they're nervous system is always activated.
So she talks a lot about her own journey and how she learned to use breathwork and all these other tools to really bring her own nervous system.
And that's how she tries to help her patients now.
So I love this conversation.
I hope you do too.
So, here's my conversation with dr.
Thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited.
This is long.
Overdue, long overdue.
I feel like we're kind of already friends on Instagram, but it's nice to actually get to have a conversation with you.
A lot of the conference's I go to are a lot of older.
Man, I mean, is it just me?
I don't know.
So, I guess I'm just like, curious as to, like, how you got into this, like, what led you to kind of gain to sleep and all that just, you know, you're not, you're not wrong.
There's an older white man as my mentor and all this.
So I have to thank him for taking me under his wing and and saying, we need more diversity in this field and just opened up his mind of knowledge.
And I was just a sponge, his name is Barry, Rayfield people say, Raphael, It's actually pronounced very feel.
He's an orthodontist in New Jersey and he he was really my introduction.
Introduction to the airway Dental side of things, but my introduction to all of this as a whole actually came as a patient.
So, and 2015 16 after doing like, you know, all the things I was working out, seven days a week.
I was really into bodybuilding.
It was like super fit.
I fell in the shower.
And that fall in the shower, kind of started, this Cascade of symptoms that I started to feel started with my ankle.
I had the Nutty Professor ankles like three times.
Its size is Big ankle and, you know, I was Hardcore like workout person, like, I'll be fine.
I'll just keep working out.
Then mean, tell people really briefly.
So you were working as a dentist though, right?
Right, then when that happened, I was in my I was literally it was one month before I would leave my residency program.
Adelphia and moved to North Carolina, got it.
So for people who don't will get into it, like nervous system stuff because like back then I had more awareness.
But like big things like a move a new job.
Those are big things to the nervous system.
Yeah, well I understand I was 27 years old.
It'll School 21.
I was 27 years old and I just was like yeah you know like I'm young and I was working out all.
I was fit and active.
And so even though I busted up my ankle, I was there than that.
I was fine and then I moved to North Carolina at this new job.
I was seeing about 50 to 60 kids a day.
And yeah, and it just was a big changes.
It's like, see kids a day.
Doesn't seem possible.
I've seen over 30,000 children and my, and my daughter wow, in 10 years?
High-volume Dentistry is.
It's a gift and a curse.
You learn a lot but it's taxing on the nervous.
And I didn't really respect the nervous system back then.
And so all this kind of led to my busted-up ankle, the pain, came back, Stephen the pain went away.
I didn't care about it anymore even though it was ugly looking but there was no pain.
Oh my God.
And then the pain came back and in waves.
And so I started seeing a bunch of different Pete.
He's all like high educated so physical therapists, physical therapists.
Yes, I feel like sometimes because I have listeners from all over the place all the time.
So, when they're saying this to be mean, so I think in like the UK, it's like physiotherapist.
You're the, ER, again, thank you for all of my I keep forgetting.
How is, you know?
Let me, let me get my mind in the right place though.
Yes, yes, thank you for correcting that.
But yeah, I was seeing xr2.
I have an aquatic physical.
And then I had one that kind of out of the water and they were great as far as really well-known, you know, by the book philosophies and maybe it was just me, but the stuff didn't really work.
And so I hadn't won concerned friend.
Her name is Brittany.
Herzberg and she, and you're still focusing on, on the ankle injury at that point like sir.
Yeah, I had other aches and pains like, I had a kneeling shoulder at the time, I left shoulder but I thought I'm right-handed.
It's not impacting my Dentistry.
Just gonna keep going.
But this ankle.
I was literally like, dragging my leg around.
Yeah, CERN, and I'm in therapy and I wasn't getting better.
So, Brittany just said, hey, see this PT and the speed, the story up, you know, I saw this PT, he did his, his physical physio stuff on my ankle and into visits, I was like healed.
So I was blown away that this guy could do this in two visits when I had been seeing other people for months.
And so I had the courage to say, hey I'm having some shoulder discomfort.
So now that my Ankle seems to be like, on the right track.
The ankle was 100% from the trauma of the Fall.
The, the shoulder, I was convinced was like dentistry and I had no idea about stress them, but I figured like the shoulders more of a other kind of stuff from.
So I said, can you help me with my shoulder and he's like, sure can I do what I usually do which is that pain management?
You know, you were in pain?
Can we actually like get to the nitty-gritty of like real physical therapy, so I'm not sure.
So he says, okay, let me ask you a few questions.
Okay, tell me about how you breathe.
I take air in and out.
What do you mean?
How, how do I breathe like normally?
So I was like, okay, let me ask you an easier question.
How is your sleep?
And like, no doctor to this point.
I'm like 20 ever.
Ask you about your sleep, never ever asked me and like I'm not even at a real as a dentist.
I feel this statement personally because I could not a real doctor, I'm at a physical therapist.
I'm not out of line.
Wellness check, you know, my bleep, my sleep.
I go to sleep and I wake up, I guess to sleep is good.
You know, he's like, okay, let me ask you an easier question because like my awareness was at zero.
So he said, tell me about your teeth.
Well Mike, you know, my dentist.
What about my teeth?
He's like, well, how do they fit together when you bite down?
Do both sides touch equally at the same time and I'm just like Just do the magic ankle stuff on my shoulder, right?
Any of this have to do with my shoulder?
Yeah, he introduced me from a physios mindset on the relationship between an unbalanced body.
So forward head posture hips rotated forward.
This very tense body posture for people listening.
I'm attempting to correct all my cuz I've got all those so yeah. yeah, and listen, many of us is like, it's like when I interviewed James Nestor and I was like, breathing, like That's right, it's James go.
And so he's asking you about your breathing and your whether your teeth put together and what were you saying, she's my shoulder and I'm like, I didn't know the answer to any of these questions.
So the answer was like normal, everything's fine except my shoulder, I had some growing awareness of what was really happening within my body and he started talking to me about stress and he was like, you know, seeing 60 kids a day.
And I'm like, no, it's not.
And it's like, okay, your mind may not perceive it as stress, but look at what your body's say, right.
I know you're working with kids from areas that.
I mean, you're not working with affluent children, right?
No, they are the kids that really need the help.
Yeah, I mean, get at that time, I had zero awareness.
I want to take the listeners back because most of the patients who consume icon to come to me.
And if consumed my content They are at Ground Zero of awareness, they really don't realize they have a problem like maybe their spouse tells them that they snore, but they don't really realize how bad their seat really is, or maybe they notice, they have a couple aches and pains but they really don't realize how bad things really are.
And that's so critical because at that stage I had no clue and as Mike started asking me these questions and telling me about the connections, then I was like, what kind of dentist am I?
That I've never heard.
Of the connections between, like, teeth in your feet.
Like, we went to a class together with dentist and physiotherapist all in one room.
And the guy said that teeth are your feet of the air and feet, are your teeth of the floor.
That's how intimately connected they are.
That was like, what?
And this makes sense only because I have terribly.
Like caveman flat feet flat.
The flat is feet.
My doctor said the flattest claimed, he had ever seen Ever.
So the only reason that kind of even like 2% made sense is because I have feet problems.
If I didn't have any awareness of that I would have found while have the Classic.
This is just crazy.
This makes no sense.
That was like you know what, that it has to be a connection, right?
Because something's not right with my feet.
And so and then I started thinking about sitting in the class like 98% of it went over my head but the 2% that did land All Tied back to things.
I was struggling with, I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, when I was in.
So I started college at 17 4 hours away from home being sheltered by my single parent mom that, you know, it's just my mom and I my whole life and then I go to Agents, new environment, new people.
And I thrived, I graduated from college with a 4.0.
However, my body did not Thrive.
I suffered many conditions and one of which was also to have Colitis, the whole process of getting to, that diagnosis was terrible.
I had to take half of one of my semesters and chop it in half and drop some classes.
I was going to the bathroom, 16, 17 18 today.
I was such a severe symptoms and was just being told like Oh, it's nothing.
And then finally, when I turned 18, I was able to see an adult gastroenterologist and I was able to have that diagnosis just to find out.
Emma years later that for the ulcerative colitis that I have, which is in that mild stage, had severe symptoms, but mild also have Colitis that actually the colitis is more.
So, an impact to my nervous system and breathing and that when I learned how to read and write it studying that my Colitis symptoms evaporated, so seeing the Since all of these things, like I what I do now was just a total manifestation of my own patient journey and the things that I struggle with in the things that I tried to find, you know, resolution for my own symptoms.
And then just said, maybe I should help other people with this stuff and that's kind of how I got here.
So when you start so after the the PT or the physio that you went to and you went to that class, so then how did you start?
Start, did you start a breathwork class or what was your first step to try and figure all this out?
Oh, that's a good question.
My first step.
So the physiotherapist and I went to the classes into a class kind of altogether.
When I really sure shoulder like he had for your uncle or your left.
No, no, he did fix my shoulder.
We actually thought that I might have a torn labrum so I actually ended up having shoulder surgery.
Once they got in there, it actually wasn't as bad as they thought.
So thank God for that was less severe.
But because Nervous system was so wrapped up which should have been probably a three-week recovery was a three-month recovery and so my nervous system really like all of those things time together.
I also bought a practice at the same time and so I was out of work.
Thank goodness for mr.
American Express because that paid my bills for three months.
And I just decided, Well, I'm out of work.
And then between I'm bum shoulder, I'm in between buying this new practice, let me just travel and go to courses.
And so I started going to a bunch of different courses and so I met dr.
Barry Ray, feel at one of those courses.
Which was on tongue ties like frenectomy.
She's strict actions.
I'm not sure which language your audience will resonate with but limited.
Okay, so yes a limited World tissues and after course we were at dinner and dr.
Barry asked me if I knew what my functional therapy was and I was like my old.
Well I don't want to I don't want to cuss with say it say it slower for me.
I don't have no idea again and it says hero and he started talking to me about it and I just was really Interested, because he said, he had patients, who were traveling from North Carolina, where I lived and worked up to Upper New Jersey, honest and time I had no idea that people would travel for care and I was like, but at the time my weirdness was at zero.
What is this thing?
So I was intrigued and he thankfully I'm telling you dr.
Dr. Barry is one of a kind person.
I call him my my Airway fairy Godfather because he just said, okay, I'm going to teach you Everything and it's us start with an eerie mini residency.
So I took his are a mini residency, which took me to the beginning of like embryology and how we got here.
It was small, jaws and how those things impact our body.
And remember already knew a little bit of stuff from the physio side, but and I think that gave me an advantage over.
Some of the other dentists, who didn't understand the physio side that didn't understand the whole body connection.
So they didn't suffer the way I did, but the air a mini residency was fantastic.
So I learned a lot.
It was multiple months, so it was a monster.
When you say are wait, like I know what you're talking about it.
But I think a lot of people out there in the public like that doesn't really mean that much to people.
So why are you speaking about you're talking about?
And like facial development in children, Airway, and facial development in children and making sure that Jaws grow properly and Or do you want to Define what you're talking about?
Yes, full children and all the way through adulthood.
So I'll preface this by saying that I consider myself a rebel of sorts, I don't subscribe to any cult theories and that I has been my advantage.
So I will say, I hate the term Airway Dentistry saying, I think it's terrible.
However, I have to use terms that people understand because people like well what do you do?
Exactly So I when I say Airway Dentistry what I mean is there's this growing field in dentistry where these dentist have taken, the time to learn additional education, about how your teeth tie into your body's breathing and sleep capabilities.
So they have understanding of small, jaws, they know what it means to try to recapture your growth.
It depends on what part of the life stage, you're in.
So the younger you are when growth and development are still.
Rapidly occurring, for more on the growth, develop growth and development.
The older you are.
There's a misnomer that you stop growing.
That is a misnomer.
When we are in medical and dental school, we study cadavers and cadavers are dead.
So when we study dead people, they don't have cerebral spinal fluid flowing through their bodies.
They don't have circulation of blood and oxygen.
So of course the sutures of the bones as we studied them refused.
Of course why wouldn't they be?
This person is no longer breathing, but when we study and understand living humans, we Stand that while our sutures of our skull mature, they do not fuse until much later in the life cycle.
So some research a controversial, right?
Super controversial, but backed by not like research from now.
I have learned the stuff.
I went back and look at stuff from the 1900s.
When the 1800s, it's in there, it's in the research was backed by research.
Whether or not we choose to look at it or not.
I'll say this about pivot for a second about controversy.
There's controversy right now about additives and preservatives in food when the fact of the matter is if you have birthday young child and you have some life came out of your body or if it's a dad and you contribute it to the life and you care more about that little individual than you do anything else, you don't want to put additives and preservatives and that baby that have been proven to be disastrous.
Regardless of what media tells you it's not.
Are going to take.
So the only controversy about our ability to continue to breathe and fuses by those who choose to profit off of the knowledge that we don't, so you can call back.
I can any listeners, one of the enemy, I can show you hundreds and hundreds of years of research that says that we don't fuse.
We mature and that makes sense.
Emma, if you think about car accidents and we were just one fuse together system.
Every time you had a severe impact break into a billion pieces.
Our body has to have some type of flexibility.
I'm not myself in the tooth by accident a couple times fork with playing, with my dog off a toy and if my if everything was fused together it would break immediately.
There's give their we have joints, we have to do with there's movement and so there's a maturity know.
My body is not as flexible and movable as it was at six but things are not totally fused.
There's growth, that still happens the fact that I can cut my hand and skin grows back on top.
Op the fact that we know through cancer research, we can impact growth.
There's always growth within the living body.
And so once I understood those things, from people who didn't have much to profit from teaching, me things, my mind kind of expanded to know more things, so back to their religion.
I hate that term but usually the dentist that have additional knowledge and training how advanced their knowledge and training is depends on who they learn from what type of things they study.
And So I always encourage the moms, I speak to all over the country to ask questions.
And as people get defensive about what they know, or evasive, they probably don't know much because those who don't will talk your head off, they will help all the things they know and then you can go and look those things up and prove them so.
Well I think I'm just coming at it with just been a strange couple of weeks.
And from a patient perspective, the hole You know, like there's been all the lawsuits about the Agra thing and and, you know, like I just was, was reading a couple of comments, you know, made by dentists who are not trained in Airway saying, you know, it's up to patients, to check the, you know, their appliances are FDA approved and, and all this kind of stuff.
And I think that it just becomes this like Quagmire for patients to try and navigate.
It's really There's no real guidance on who to trust in this stuff.
There's not there is.
And here's the thing I leaned into most people avoid the uncomfortable, I lean into them and I don't know if I coach basketball for 10 years, I had to have conversations with parents about your kids.
Just not good enough right now.
Start you have to have thick skin from for that kind of business.
Yeah, you know, it's one of those things where parents would come into me as a pediatric dentist.
Convinced I was going to hurt the child.
Convince the child was going to die and I have them.
Sit some offices.
The parents won't stay in the room.
They go in the waiting room.
I have every parent's right in the corner, we have rules.
Don't speak unless spoken to their piece of furniture, but I've had every parent for the last 10 years, it right in that corner and watch their child Thrive.
Watch their child, not cry.
Not whence not move.
And I look at their faces of the corner of my eye and see their mind blowing.
So because of my experience, just like stuff and and I would add in As I did an interview recently with a guy asked me, does my race play a factor in this?
Does my race, and my background play a factor in my desire to be excellent.
And I had never had someone.
This was not a black person that asked me, these questions and older white men, but I never thought about it.
And now that he has put that seeped into my mind, I will say that with that, with all of these things in mind, I will tell you that I do not avoid having these conversations, you are absolutely correct.
There is not a Regulation or rule process.
And the thing is they're all ever will be.
And the reason is because patients, really have to understand that most of the people who designed the rules, don't come in with a patient's, best interest in mind.
And I learned, when I ran this office that I run, that's in a low-income area.
And we see 7,000 kids, the unfortunate reality is that this is not going to stop, right that.
When you so I've seen another patient side and I now have run a practice.
Dr. Side right?
So as a practicing doctor owner, money is a factor.
Like people are driven like when I go to the doctor.
I have so much sympathy or she was the empathy for them because that doctor has to see patients in a particular timeframe.
Yes, they cannot go over that time frame.
That doctor doesn't run that practice.
They report to someone else.
And looks at how many patients they've seen and they do everything to billing and codes.
And I've learned that because when I mentioned the colitis journey, I had all these things tackled to my Collide.
I never knew this as a patient.
When I was sick, 17 ATM, when I became a dentist and went to get disability insurance and was denied for disability insurance at 29 years old.
I was like, what's wrong actually?
27 years old?
I was like, what's I'm healthy?
What they had text so many codes.
Emma, to my visit, I had rheumatoid arthritis so they can bill more so they can.
Like, I don't have rheumatoid arthritis, I had some joint pain and it was called colitis Associated arthritis, but there's no code for that.
So they coded rheumatoid all over things and then when I went to go get, disability insurance years later.
They're like you have rheumatoid arthritis, I'm like, wait a minute, no, I don't.
And then the mess.
I had an angle.
So when you understand medicine in this country, you'll understand that you have to be your own Advocate as a page.
Yeah, cannot rely on this.
The system and right, I actually see that as a good thing because reality is nobody's going to care more about your treatment than you and I would not have been having this conversation on your amazing podcast.
If I had not for my own self as a patient said, wait a minute, I love these physiotherapist, they're great.
But this isn't working for me and how do I answer for me?
And then I had a friend that said, hey go to this guy but I didn't want to go to because he took cash and didn't take insurance, but it was the best hundred fifty dollars.
I ever spent in my life.
But I had to do that for myself.
I had to adapt even myself.
I had to try out certain people and not work and I wish it wasn't the case, but it's going to ever be the case.
Unless we change the way things work in this country.
And I don't see that all.
We still have.
It's not happening in the short term.
We still have a shot at school and he's conversations and the crazy stuff when I was introduced to Dentistry.
So I don't know if you've heard this story.
I think I mentioned it on the Airway Circle podcast.
How I Nuno, dentist.
I had no desire to be a.
Yeah, I randomly called me and said, hey, you're going to be a dentist?
So he owned 3.
Very similar practices, 97% Medicaid.
So that was all I knew.
So, when I came into Dentistry from that perspective, I purchased a practice that was 97 percent Medicaid because I wanted to help people.
And the longer I've been doing this for 10 years and what became so abundantly clear to me years ago is that most people Don't want to help themselves, the internal will to be well as an Engaged and that you can plant a seed and help them but there is a piece, it's a fine line, there's a song and dance between you have to want to help yourself and it's difference between one to help yourself and not having the resources and that's where you and I jump in.
But there's a lot of people who don't want the help.
So first come in and for me to care so much about your oral hygiene it for me to care.
So much about your life, in the things you're eating and me too.
I care so much about your little little kidney, and liver your three, and how it's going to grow and sitting in juice that.
But your parent doesn't care, then I have to take a step back and now it's not my place anymore and so it's the Savior complex.
But I didn't really understand until I bought my own but with the airway stuff, I really wish.
I mean it would be easy, right?
Like life would be so easy.
If there was one unifying board and there was one standard of guidelines but that almost dangerously makes me think about.
Street and all the things I learned about fluoride and dental school and then I did my own research later on.
I don't even use fluoridated toothpaste.
Yeah for myself.
So as a provider, I let the family decide and I had a parent come in recently and go.
You're the first provider that's ever made it.
For me not to want fluoride.
I'm like, well, is your choice also, I didn't listen to what they taught me in dental school.
I did my own research and based on my own research, I'm not sure it's for everyone, right?
Like, it's for some People, it's not for some other people, it's not forever.
And so it's scary, almost to think of like what do I want to board regulating this?
Because there's a for regulating, the other stuff that I do and that's kind of led me down a general.
It depends on like, it takes a lot to know and understand what's really happening.
I just because someone's Airway may, be small in appearance, doesn't mean that your way is the problem.
That's why I told you like that are weighed in the middle term but it's like Airways one problem.
There's neurology that can be a problem.
There are other pathologies that can be a problem.
Natural inflammation, confirmations people.
There are many problems in a lot of them stack on top of each other.
And so the more knowledge I think what makes sleep apnea is so frustrating and so difficult because I think I feel like people, you know, even if they try to address some part of it like quite often there is systemic inflammation or like that, you know, there's a Another part to it and it's just a law.
So, take us back to your like.
So I don't think we got all the way to the end of you, like figuring out how you would feel better.
So, you were saying so you went, and you learned a bunch of my Airway Dentistry.
Did you then?
So did you start myofunctional therapy?
Was that kind of your first?
I so I, what I did was I learned about I told you about dr.
And I think he had a guy who was doing a residency.
See in this space whose name is Roger price, and Roger price.
Talk to me about breathing only for about five minutes and it blew my mind and I spent lots of money and went down a rabbit hole on breathing that I'm thankful for.
But he told me about everything comes down to taking your next breath that.
Nothing else matters and unless you take the next breath, and so I that's what I went down breathing Rabbit Hole.
So before I went on them, our rabbit who knew about Maya, but I went down to breathing Rabbit Hole first.
And so what I learned in this is higher Tation breathing.
I'm talking about not a breathwork course.
I actually have a degree that's in breathing analysis so we have something called a cab not know that.
So we have something called Capernaum type Nama tree.
We used this machine.
So we can measure CO2 levels and it's a whole science.
But in the government uses it, in PTSD, research and a bunch of different things.
But in this two-year master's degree program, what I learned and is that wreathing is as equal psychological as it is structural and functional.
And so, nobody really talked about the psychology of breathing.
As in, there's this point, I call it the space between the kitchen, the kitchen sink, and the countertop, or between the stove.
And the refrigerator is like a little space.
There's a space where everything melts together your physiology psychology.
Geez, your function everything.
And unfortunately, like the physios don't understand the psychology and the dental, the dentist don't understand the physiology psychology, the psychologists don't understand.
Like it's we're all these little silos, but if you actually like mesh it together, there's a point where they really neat and come together.
And so to uncomplicate that, I call that the nervous system.
And so when I understood the nervous system and then I went, and I got a certificate as a mile, functional Specialists, I have a certification Occation in oral facial, my apology.
That was a three-month program that I did.
So I just kept going down rabbit holes.
But as I learned about the neurology and learned about nervous system, I started and stopped my.
Oh, and the reason is because my nervous system was so cranked and amped up that you can.
It's just not the right all the time, all the time.
Yeah, that is not the right time.
And so and I was getting a lot of like I didn't have Instagram then, but I was getting a lot of feedback from people who Trusted me to guide them on like where to start.
And I would get so frustrated with myself because I like to have the answers and I didn't have an answer and then I found the answer and the answer is if your nervous system is so wrecked and so turnt up.
Your muscles are tight and calcified and stiff.
So trying to do my oh I mean, I'm not saying you're not going to make improvements.
I love myofunctional therapy, I worked with multiple malfunction therapist, but if your nervous system is just trashed and wrecked, you're not ready yet.
For my oh, you know the right treatment in the wrong seat.
Science is just as dangerous as the wrong treatment all together.
It's about treatment sequencing and so, for a lot of people myself at the time, it was, you need to calm down.
And when you first start calming down your body runs from calm because you don't know.
You don't know that feet doesn't feel safe.
It doesn't feel safe and so I needed to be able to be on when I needed to be on like I was lecturing now, I was traveling the world going Australia, all these different places.
So I needed my sympathetic nervous.
This system, it's what gets you out of bed in the morning, but I also needed for the few vacations.
I took like the one per year to be able to enjoy the beach and sit, there and go.
Oh, this is relaxing.
And said, I was on my phone and stressed out, it was for practice, doing and and then, I'd be at dinner with my fiance on a date night.
And then, here I am Ona stressed out and so, I am I nervous system just needed to like woosah, you know?
For me, that was the start like I learned all of this stuff and then I couldn't really apply any of it to my patients.
Because number one, it was just floating all around in my head and number two, I was still suffering.
Yeah, so nervous system was the start.
And so once I fix my nervous system and got it to understand this balance, and how did you do that?
So the easiest way to describe as a multi-state, multi-step process.
But what I did was first and foremost, that Petey just the amazing guy that Help my shoulder also specializes in common, the nervous system, a combination of like breathing and posture together.
So I started with him and then I started working with my own breath coach.
His name is Campbell, will on Instagram, he's always forget it, but I think it's breath fighting therapy.
I wrote it down, so we can tell everyone.
It's breath Body Therapy.
Yeah, he's amazing link to it because like so of anybody, I follow on Instagram.
You not just in the perfect job for him.
Like, I feel like he was put on the earth to teach people how to breathe.
And listen, a lot of people teach people how to breathe, but they only understand like breathing like, maybe they taught yoga.
No offense intended to Sugar, but baby talk building.
They weren't you.
He's a physiotherapist.
Like, so, he's, he understands that and he came in like me, skeptical, he came in like, breathing, can't change my life like that.
It's not that big of a deal.
And then was like, whoa, breathing changed my life.
Let me teach others but understanding that breathing is is breathing is a is a is a physiology, it's an art it's a science.
A lot of people use breathing as a sport like he teaches Wim Hof and all the cool stuff McKim was really adamant about if you don't know how dysfunctional daily every breath breathing, barely breathing.
And so even though at this degree and knew all this stuff and I had all the smarts and all the certifications and all the knowledge I still was not able to apply it.
So in addition to seeing Mike that amazing PT that all my soul, my patients see his, he's that good.
I started working with Campbell so I've tackled the breathing from the structural side with with Mike and the Nystrom camels in Australia, right?
He's an Aussie.
He's a nauseous.
So you just went to Australia to hang with him.
No we do virtual so now.
He floats between Jersey Philly and Australia.
Great everybody anybody in the world can work with Campbell although I hope they don't all at once because then he won't have.
Time for me, right?
So he had a, he had a week program called from Warrior to Warrior, and I think if it was called from, like, anxiety to.
So, I probably wouldn't have taken it, because I didn't really resonate with anxiety, that felt broken to me.
But worrier felt like, yeah, I'm a worrier from where your Warrior and and it was that and Mike together that started helping my nervous system calm down and It started studying the Somme, Appliance in 2019.
And this all started happening in 2020 and 2021 Mike and Campbell kind of together.
But in 2019, I learned about the soul.
My thought it was the coolest thing I've ever heard of, but I couldn't understand it.
I was in baby stages of knowledge.
I just didn't get it.
And so after the crews called me randomly out of the blue and wanted me to work with his mentor who's a very well-known psychologist, he ended up passing away before I could work with him but he wanted me to work with him and I'm like, why would you want me?
To do it.
I don't even understand your work and he told me I was a Healer and I had another fight as that but had never articulated.
How I felt, I didn't really feel like a dentist anymore.
I felt like I didn't feel like an airway dentist.
I felt like something else, but I couldn't articulate.
Yeah, how I felt, and he said, you're a Healer.
You want to engage people's.
Internal will to be well, which is what I did when I coached, right?
Like, let's get it out of you.
Let's put it on, you, I'll be here as your guy, but it's one.
You and us in that first conversation, we're just there.
Different from the traditional dentist.
Just kind of telling people what they should be doing.
Yeah, here's another point.
I would just add it before you put it in your mouth.
Come back and see me in this time, right?
What did you body want?
What is your body say?
How how, how is your life?
You know, did you move to a new place?
You start a new job.
Is there discarding your family.
Like nobody really understanding these good things, that impact, sleep and sleep apnea, you know?
Yeah, and so dr.
Cruz was like the first person that really tied it together for me.
And once I started, he's an Australian.
If you are playing for the Australian together, my nervous system calm down.
Soma came back.
I wasn't able to really perceive it and do it because I was.
So I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna learn this and I'm going to distance information on Load, once I Center myself and I figured out who Jasmine was not Dr.L more, but Jasmin, once I really accept my Life and Legacy, I want to leave what am I doing here?
What am I doing?
This war Soma for this was 2021.
Soma came back around and so I started really studying it.
I was studying in a little amongst other appliances Alf and homeo block, and a bunch of other things.
Bebo, I stepped through all those classes bag, I add all of them.
Them and they never really resonate what I wanted to achieve.
It wasn't tooth movement.
I wanted to achieve, it wasn't jog expansion, I wanted to achieve.
It was something else and I still couldn't articulate it but I knew I wasn't Wellness.
You know like it was it was a vet tech related now.
It's it's when life hits, you of stuff.
How can you be properly equipped to life when Life Starts lifing?
I wanted my patients to not be dependent on me, but when things fell apart around them to almost have this Invisible Shield where they were always the calm in the storm, I call it the I was a gardener in a war and I was a warrior and a garden.
I I, you know, if I needed to be calm, I was always to Up.
And then have that conversation with an employee that was uncomfortable.
I would run.
I was just so it was fear that, that lad.
A lot of like this fear, may be successful, but fear made me unhealthy.
And so I wanted my patients to be really fearless and be able to deal with life and I and none of those appliances.
Those appliances because I don't think they're designed to do that they're designed type OU and this and that.
But I wanted people to like live longer and And feel better and it lasts 20 years from now not we got to this treatment every five years, right?
And like Soma and after the cruise and I could like hear it.
Calling me once my nervous system.
So so for people listening how did you I think I know what you mean.
But how did you realize that your nervous system after working on the breath and with the physical physical therapist?
I think that my brain.
Just goes, it's a physiotherapy is he will take busy.
So so what was it that you you just felt Kammer or how did it manifest in your actual body?
Like how did you know?
Oh, my nervous system is actually in a much better place now.
Yeah, it's the awareness that breathing gives you.
It's why I like it as a start, right?
So another controversy because we're talking about controversies earlier, is enough tape, I love it.
Yeah, but when I take my mouth, After about maybe eight nights, I woke up and I felt refreshed.
Same crap, diet back then, same stressed nervous system.
I just felt like, wow.
Like I slept.
Yeah, and I had felt that before so eight days before I would have tried to talk to that Jasmine, I couldn't understand what it was, like to feel, even a Slither of rest.
Now, the mouth tape lasted, you know, doesn't last forever, but right, I once I could taste the food, this is rest.
When you sleep, I could understand.
So for my nervous, System thinking back to that first conversation with Mike, when I was like, I breathe how I breathe.
I sleep how I sleep at a hearing is to just a little stage of awareness above that.
It took for me to work with Campbell in Mike and Tackle breathing from two different ways and then realize the new calm centeredness that when I would get a phone call that my office was on fire or whatever that I just deal with it.
As it came, not the guilt, the shame that anger The hurt.
The woe is me the life's always against me, those types of things that I never knew as young Jasmine, Young Jasmine was the ultimate Optimist.
Young jassm was the happiest person in the world.
There's a story.
My mom loves to tell about how we were out at us at a store and I was playing with a toy and a kid came over and snatched the toy out of my hand, just smash it out of my hand and I didn't say anything.
I don't remember this story, my mom remembers.
I didn't say anything.
I just got up to the toy chest, went to get a new toy and sit back down and the kids, mom.
Went up to my mom and said, oh my God, my son.
He snatched this toy from your daughter and she didn't do anything.
She didn't say anything.
She just went up and got another toy on mom said, yes, but she supposed to do because that's how I raised her.
But it's funny because that was how I was my entire life Emma until I wasn't.
And so I bought these practice and the Jazz and I knew for 30 years was gone I was always on edge.
I was angry.
Not the fact the the the face I showed the world that was Inside your body inside.
I was upset, I was hurt.
I feel like I made the stupid decision to buy this practice where I'm seeing 60 people.
I have friends who see six people and they make the same profit and this was done just that you're stupid.
You're so dumb.
Why would you try to help people?
No one cares and no one's donating supplies for your 97%?
Medicaid office, and no one's helping you.
You're done like all these thoughts.
I never experienced right.
And I started gaining weight.
And I grew up in a family where, like weight gain, is a big deal, I grew up in a family where you To be small.
I was small.
My whole life and then I started getting threatening this.
How are you Fatso?
I never knew that Jasmine, but when I'm nervous system has always been wrecked ever since I was a little kid.
But then when the tides turned, I was like, I'm not me.
And when I started feeling like me again, that's when I knew.
Now when bad stuff happened this is how yeah.
Okay, that's okay.
I'm gonna be okay, I'm gonna be fine.
It's not the end of the world.
So so did you So you started using the Soma Appliance yourself at.
So I use this on that.
So the way I do it is funny.
You know, I'm a rebel.
I don't wear it in my paper, like, I'm a Rebel Rebel.
I don't want to remember my patients where I wear it and then I stopped wearing it because I want to know, when I have a patient, is non-compliant how it's going to work, what's going to happen?
What changes stick with changes?
So for the last, like, six months, I've been in and out of the Soma purposely because I've been experimenting with myself, but when I Understanding the Solomon was when I read this book called Dental distress syndrome.
It's an older book from the 80s back to our research.
You talk about research and wanting to know stuff like yeah, the 1970 Dental distress syndrome Dental distress syndrome, okay?
And you can buy it at, I'm gonna link it in the shop in TMD resources.
Okay, so it comes with when it comes with, get the bottom separately, but for the He's listening, there's a DVD series from 1981, that's like a five-part DVD series.
The quality is terrible, but because it's 1981, but the lessons I learned in here combined, this book, tied together, everything that dr.
De Cruz was telling me about the some of that I didn't understand.
And so, and this book, it's crazy.
I'm gonna send you a copy because I wanted to send you a copy before.
I'm going to mail you a copy.
But okay, it talks about the night.
Three Nobel, Peace Prize in medicine physiology, not dentistry in physiology medicine, and Physiology was about Dentistry about the rag bag of rheumatism arthritis.
Asthma depression, depth of sleep over all cheerful, mental alertness, all these different things and the musculature of the body and teeth, 1973 Nobel, Peace Prize.
Like so this book personal changed my life because it came with science and research and real information, but it helped me understand what dr.
Cruz was saying because even though he was saying it, and I believed him I couldn't, it was just so different than yeah.
So the actual Appliance like is, is it an expander?
Okay, so let's talk about it.
Let's talk about It.
So it is.
It's a three-in-one, okay?
It's tackling three problems at once.
The first problem, we talked about where to start nervous system.
The first problem is for most people who's nervous system is really wrecked.
They can't open their mouths, very wide.
Their, their job opening is very limited and they're in turn is very limited and with dr.
De Cruz told me that a stuck with me.
So me this, when I was, in Australia last year, we wasn't talking to me exactly talking to a patient, but I have my notebook out.
He said, At the end of the day, we're all primates, right?
We all have a primal background and so in our history you're either prey or predator.
And if you cannot open your mouth to show your teeth are too bare teeth to whoever's trying to attack you.
And if you cannot turn your head to see your Predator coming, then your nervous system will always think you're a prey.
You're in, pray mode all the time.
And so, for him and turn and jaw opening are two of the biggest measurements.
He looks at and I've never really heard anybody talk about it, turn and jaw opening when it came to all of clients.
So, the first thing that it does is get something called pivoting of your jaw.
The crews talks about how most appliances, hinge your ja Z open, but he gets this pivoting and I saw one of his patients.
Open 75, mm, and for your audience, that's like a whole hand yelling into them.
Thinking I've never seen all.
I've seen are people you tell them open them like they don't open.
And that's because the muscles are so tight.
The muscles are so calcified and so the first thing that someone really does is get your job and go from hinge to Pivot and get your job.
So it helps with the temporomandibular dysfunction and then he saw all the other things over and over time.
And so it's he says jaw opening is like Tai Chi.
And so if you understand the balance, the movements of breathing that goes of Tai Chi, he said job openings like Tai Chi and so, the first thing it does is get your jaw open and And pivot.
And that's a big thing with the nervous system.
The second thing it does is that it balances the teeth on both sides and balance is important.
Because as you move in space, and as you walk your body, even though I have a left hand, and the right hand and left foot, and right foot when the body doesn't perceive things in that way, with proprioception, that's how you kind of trip and fall.
Like, I was that kid, that had amazing hand-eye coordination.
I played all the sports, but I was going to trip.
In fall and stub my toe everyday.
I mean, I'm clumsy people at this company.
People, these people who can't cut with scissors and can't cut in a straight line.
Those are proprioception things that goes back to reflexes that we're not properly integrated during birth, but I'm trying to get into embryology, but like deep understandings of reflexology and embryology have to do with those things.
But when you understand like how the body moves and proprioception is like Mike, remember the physiotherapist taught me about pelvis rotated forward head.
It tilted forward.
So I understood how the body moves and how the body sees the world when your heads forward and things like that.
So this client balances you on both sides and most of us are not balanced our molars in that balance and that that that balance issue goes back to the dental distress syndrome and it sends those chaotic signals to the brain.
And since like the fusion, it locks up the cerebral, spinal fluid in the body as well.
And so it balances you.
Get your job at open and yes, there's expansion, that happens with it as well.
That usually happens after about three to four months once those muscles calm down, remember when the muscles are tight and calcified, you're fighting against them, I can move your teeth but then the muscles are fighting right back in my hopes.
But not, if you have this neurological, this is not nervous system.
So the actual mechanism of it, is it expect like, is it you get a bunch of different ones that different sizes or it's got some just turning thing.
Yeah, so it has its the one Appliance I thought that I brought it.
I'll check this in a second, but I brought it, but it's one Appliance and it's designed to do those three things.
So the height in the back with the acrylic is, is the vertical support.
That's going to get the John, a hinge and pivot, both sides of the acrylic have to be balanced, which means if you put it on a flat table, it may Rock.
Because maybe on this side, my teeth are a little higher up than this side and the importance is trying to balance me.
So I'm just going to be flat, right?
And then in The Mists is custom-made for each.
I still need to eat and then in the middle there's an expansion screw but let me tell you how it works.
The first three to four months, I see someone we don't touch the expansion screw because we're calming the nervous system were relaxing, the muscles, we're balancing the B, we're getting the head to turn after the muscles kind of start to melt and kind of relax.
Now we can expand but here's how we expand When you wear it, after certain number of nights that number of nights is different for everyone, you'll go to put it in and it'll just fall out.
It'll be loose because your body has naturally expanded itself.
And that's when you touch the expansion screw, and it gets just enough.
So that when you put it back in it, fits not too tight, not like squeezing, and not loose.
It fits like I feel this jacket on my body, it's not great music, it's a good fit, the appliance just goes in, you should be able to take it right out and just throw is more.
More, like, it's keeping up with, what your body's doing rather, than forcing.
So after another, let's just pick a number, 30 nights, you're going to put it in its going to be loose again.
You touch the screw again.
So after a year, you're going to get expansion after two years and I've more expansion, but it happens as your body is ready for it.
So that way those results last and stay versus US forcing and doing them on.
I mean, I can move your jobs wherever I want but then the He's going to decide, it doesn't want that and it's going to, you know, fight back.
I don't know how many like her people wearing it just when they sleep, just when they just released.
It's meant to be really easy.
So like when I go to Mike and I do my PT with him, my physio with him, he wants me to have it in because it keeps my body more centralized and balanced.
But I have wrecked week.
He'll be like Jasmine.
Did you wear your Soma to drive?
Because I have an hour commute to work because I did you wear your Soma to commute and so I May pop it in one of that commute.
I, I originally recommended that for a few patients, but now I realize that, if your nervous system is wrecked on your Clincher, grinder, they and you're awake.
You're just clenching and grinding into it.
You don't have that relaxation.
But for those who are kind of in the later stages and more relaxed and they want to be a little more balanced, it just pop it in then and so it's slowly starting to correct the cranial changes.
Like, if you ever look at a face and you see, like one II's higher than the other ears higher than the other kind of thing up?
At that face it's trying to slowly correct the face but how it helps with because you're on the sleep apnea podcast.
So I thought that was going to be my next question.
That's just what's it got to do with sleep apnea?
So so I'll preface that by saying, I don't work with severe sleep apnea patients because if your oxygens dropping into the 60s and 70s, then an alternative treatment plan is probably not.
Where we're at in your journey, you're just not ready yet for that.
So the people who come to me are, usually the ones who have upper air resistance syndrome, more mild sleep, apnea and there's just no real solution for them yet.
I might be probably even gone through going to the doctor having a sleep study.
And then being told, even though you have symptoms your age, I is not high enough for.
That and then they're just kind of sent home.
Yes, that's exactly and precisely why I work with.
And so the easiest way because we've gone into some in-depth combo, which I'm sure people will appreciate some people looking for these details.
That's why I wanted to talk about to just simplify when the jaw comes forward not to a particular number just, when the jaw comes forward, there's more oxygen that's going to be in the system and so oxygen people don't think about this because I didn't think about it until after the cruise mentioned it, but if you ever run a marathon, On in your muscles, start to get tight that's the lactic acid coming into play.
So the more oxygen that you can get, it keeps the lactic acid at Bay and so pain goes down.
So it's one of the reasons why I TMD and things are helping you get that jaw forward.
And so, with sleep, specifically, with the people that I work with, it's not about their age either oxygen, it's about their respiratory disturbance, index.
And it's about what their heart rate is doing while they're asleep.
And so, there's a lot of nerve System in their sleep is like, yeah, right, that's it.
Calming the nervous system down and that when you calm the nervous system down, the sleeping proves it to remember, is that how you sleep at night is how you breathe during the day.
So that because my patients also work with Mike when they come from.
I had a patient travel from Michigan.
She came and she saw Mike and me together of a patient coming from Florida next month.
She's going to see Mike and myself.
Myself together and then they're also going to see.
Campbell we're doing a Time nervous system relaxation with the Soma helping us with a nighttime nervous system relaxation.
So for these particular people the nervous system is the issue and as their nervous system calms, that sleep apnea diagnosis is going to fall away because the issue is really the heart rate and what the heart rate is doing to impact their sleep.
It's not their oxygen.
The oxygen is not dropping down into the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Now, for people who do have oxygen deficit, I have one particular, A patient where which is going to be in the nasal CPAP, right?
And then have her song with it because she won the treatment plan.
She wants to click resolve this over time versus just having just only the CPAP for, you know, next time.
So I think that's a really smart way to do it because then you know, you're keeping the airway open and getting enough oxygen and you know when you're not having that like every time you have an apnea having that, you know, Nervous system reaction all the time, which is going to be like the opposite of what you're trying to do.
So that's super interesting.
So, but for people listening so they don't get confused.
It doesn't work as a mandibular advancement device, right?
It's not, it doesn't have like stuff on the size, it's keeping the lower jaw forward.
It's just an upper it house.
So it's an upper Appliance.
But it is a mandibular advancement Appliance, because the way it's designed, it's on a pivot.
So it pivots The job.
So like if I know what I look like right now and then I put it in my job posture is it would because it's a slide, think about going down a slide on playground forward.
The difference though is that the body does not like to be braced, so they believe me, this is work.
Great in theory, but the body does not like to be held into a position and so this Appliance gets your junk for it but it needs to be forward.
And then when your body Doesn't want your child for that much.
It can just lie back to where wants to be versus just holding you in one position.
And that was me because when I first saw Mike, I was in a back brace.
I didn't mention this, but I don't think I've mentioned this on a podcast.
That was in a back brace.
It's an exclusive Jasmine.
This is the exclusive just for Emma and sleep.
Yes, I was in a back brace.
I had paid about four thousand dollars for Chiropractic therapy because as a dentist back pain is the big thing for dinner.
And I was finally pain-free and I was in this back brace and Mike looks at me and he goes You're going to have to get rid of that back brace.
And I said, like, hell, I am not get rid of this back brace Mike.
Now, after you killed my ex back braces?
How I'm making it, I'll make sure I'm surviving.
Yeah, once he healed my ankle in two sessions.
I said well I'm going to listen because he's got proof by he knows he's talking about and so I got rid of the back brace and let me tell you Emma. 81 work in my mind.
I was saying so many customer.
I was cussing, Mike out so much in my head, they one day, two day, three day, four day, five, the back pain, went away, and never came back.
But the first couple days I knows what's up.
I was cussing him out in my head every child that came in at the only their parents only knew what I was saying.
In my mind, I probably would that for anymore.
But what he was telling me that the body doesn't like to be braced motion is lotion.
The body likes movement racing is Gap.
Like, you know, you twist your ankle, whatever.
But like, a couple days to like, a couple weeks, Max not months at a time, not know.
So the thing about the mandibular advancement is you want the job to go forward, you want to move it forward.
That's why there's this platform sliding that jaw forward but you can't hold and Brace it there because the Doesn't like that.
So now we're as the old people used to say growing up the old black lady's.
You stay robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Yeah, you're fixing one black dress that do not just the black ladies because my grandmother too.
I was a Scottish.
Okay, I wasn't just a little, you know, like the, the farmers high school, you know, like the farmers wives.
Apparently that was the thing to correct.
And I wasn't sure if it was something listening to know about, but yes, I do.
You know, it's like you're advancing in one area to just take a debt somewhere else.
I'm a false sense.
But if you need, it is known.
And that's no, not to the mandibular advancement device.
It has it has its place but people who understand like I'm like people don't abandon your therapy.
If it's keeping your sleep apnea treated, if it's helping you yeah abandon it don't stop doing it.
For me I was really into cranial therapy.
I was really Into like understanding that the brain has a, and a, this breathing and call it primary respiration.
You know, just breathe with your lungs diagram.
This is movement and as I took classes and I can feel that movement, understand it.
I didn't want anything to disrupt that movement and so racing.
And those types of things would disrupt that movement.
And as I would test my own body, we use them applied Kinesiology with the Soma.
So when we put it in your mouth, I actually start testing your strength to see.
Are you stronger with this end and this end we test pain points throughout not in the mouth but throughout the body.
So we do squeeze testing before this on what we do, squeeze testing with it in, so if I'm squeezing you squeezing your SDM up here on your neck and I'm squeezing your traps and I'm squeezing your hand.
If that feels like painful, I haven't done my job.
That's almost not, right?
We want to adjust it where the pain goes down so people immediately leave calmer paying down strength up.
So that that My mind.
It's like, you're getting results right there at the chair.
So the person leaves feeling like you're squeezing me, I feel nothing, we're five minutes ago of squeezing.
Your like Alec stop squeezing my neck hurts.
Yeah, that's what happens when you get the system balance when you understand how the body perceives pain and you can change that it does.
So I mean clearly we could talk all day but I'm gonna have to wrap up so tell people so you're basically the only person in America that Is offering this right right now?
Okay, coming in June.
I don't have an exact date yet.
I will maybe next week, but he's going to teach the same course that he taught in 2019.
The difference is, I'm going to do a summary each day and kind of like bring it together for people because I didn't really get most of the course.
It was great knowledgeable but that I couldn't like take it in like start doing stuff with it.
So together we're going to teach a course this summer.
Because we want, you know, the summit to be used by many many doctors.
It's that great.
It does take time.
Like I said, it took me three years to go.
You know what?
I'm going to go to Australia and like sit with him and his patients and really asking the tough questions in work of my own Soma and then touch up.
It's almost like it took me three years to feel confident.
I want to shorten that time frame for other pair either, so if people want to work with you.
So you said, you have people traveling from all over so they can just watch the best place for People to contact you.
So by the time you cut and edit this, my website maybe up.
So my website is painfreeandrested.com, painfreeandrested.com that I know, you'll have that link somewhere.
I will I'll link in the show notes.
In the meantime because they sent me the website, and I hated it and, you know, me.
Perfectionist was like, no, I can't watch that.
So no website right now, but I do have an Instagram specifically for Soma, it's called sleep with.
Alma and so that just came out in the length as well.
Yes, they can go there, they can send a DM to sleep with Soma.
I have a personal Instagram page, rich_sleep, where they can DM me as well, and those are like the easiest ways right now.
But like I said, by the time you put this out, the website will be up and they took her well lesson.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate your time.
It was awesome.
Thanks for having me.